19-02-2021, 11:37 PM
51
Re: Millions without heat
Originally Posted by AnnieS
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hope you're doing ok Bakerman it's important to stay warm but be careful. Do you have a hot water bottle?
Originally Posted by OldGreyFox
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Good grief Bakerman, that's shorts and tee shirt weather here in Yorkshire....
Ha Ha No, OGF, not for me. These old bones need the Sun. After living in The Philippines for so many years, I'm used to temperatures in the high 80's F.
20-02-2021, 05:39 AM
52
Re: Millions without heat
Originally Posted by OldGreyFox
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Never thought of that Bruce.....however, just outside of the village where I live was the largest coal fired power station in Europe, when it was first commissioned back in 1958 I think it was. It contained two large generators (alternators) one was a 'Parsons' and the other was 'AEG' There was also a jet engine driving a further Alternator. The jet engine was from an 'English Electric Lightning' or so I heard. The jet engine was used to provide an almost instant supply of power in peak times, and since you mention it, it was probably used to restart the main generators. Most people thought the loud roar we occasionally heard was pressure being released from the boilers, but it was the jet engine and was very loud here in the village over a mile away. Especially early in the mornings.
Some one had the bright idea of using the gas turbine to perform a black start so they set about running a test. It was a complete failure.
Some of the auxiliary pumps and equipment were started quite happily until they operated the switch to start the ID Fan, as soon as the switch was closed the gas turbine spat the dummy and shut itself down.
What they forgot was that these motors are squirrel cage and direct on line starting so when they start they draw approximately 7 times the running current. That was the end of that.
Many decades ago I worked at a power station right in the middle of Sydney and we used to practice black starts using power generated by a (relatively) near by hydro station. The hydro had a manually operated set of gates (must have been a bugger of a job opening those) which could be used to provide power to one boiler and turbine set. Once that was up and running then you could use the power (50MW) to start another generating unit and so on.
It was actually quite interesting to do because frequency control was very tricky.
These days systems rely in interconnectedness to save the situation for example all the east coast states in Australia are connected only WA and NT are not connected to anyone but I suspect renewables will be very useful in a black out - I don't know because they weren't a "thing" when I worked in the power industry.
20-02-2021, 11:36 AM
53
Re: Millions without heat
Originally Posted by bakerman
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No hot water bottle, Annie. But I'm doing fine.Ha Ha No, OGF, not for me. These old bones need the Sun. After living in The Philippines for so many years, I'm used to temperatures in the high 80's F.
20-02-2021, 11:43 AM
54
Re: Millions without heat
Originally Posted by Bruce
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Actually I doubt it but I don't know the site so can't say for sure. I can tell you a funny story about that. At a large power station on the Central Coast they had one of these gas turbine left over from a power shortage of the 1980s. It was a 15MW set. The largest motor at the power station drove one of the fans for the boiler and used about 12MW Some one had the bright idea of using the gas turbine to perform a black start so they set about running a test. It was a complete failure.
Some of the auxiliary pumps and equipment were started quite happily until they operated the switch to start the ID Fan, as soon as the switch was closed the gas turbine spat the dummy and shut itself down.
What they forgot was that these motors are squirrel cage and direct on line starting so when they start they draw approximately 7 times the running current. That was the end of that.
Many decades ago I worked at a power station right in the middle of Sydney and we used to practice black starts using power generated by a (relatively) near by hydro station. The hydro had a manually operated set of gates (must have been a bugger of a job opening those) which could be used to provide power to one boiler and turbine set. Once that was up and running then you could use the power (50MW) to start another generating unit and so on.
It was actually quite interesting to do because frequency control was very tricky.
These days systems rely in interconnectedness to save the situation for example all the east coast states in Australia are connected only WA and NT are not connected to anyone but I suspect renewables will be very useful in a black out - I don't know because they weren't a "thing" when I worked in the power industry.
20-02-2021, 04:47 PM
57
Re: Millions without heat
Jeez, all those poor Texans. 1st the electric grid fails, and people were dying from hypothermia, then the water plants could not purify the water so the folks had to boil their water, then the temp rose a bit and the frozen water pipes broke and flooded homes. And now, the grocery stores are totally out of food. Shelves literally bare.What next ? locusts, lice, boils ?
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