20-11-2017, 10:43 PM
21
Re: Santa Claus is no longer
Originally Posted by Floydy
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On a side note, apparently Santa Claus/Father Christmas originally dressed in a green outfit and that the red attire was a Coco-Cola invention.How true this is I don't know.
20-11-2017, 10:51 PM
23
Re: Santa Claus is no longer
Phew, for one dreadful moment when I began to read the opening post I thought it was going to be some ghastly old crap about calling him the Winter Present Bringer or something equally lame so no one is offended!
Father Christmas here.
Santa very occasionally maybe.
20-11-2017, 10:53 PM
24
Re: Santa Claus is no longer
Originally Posted by Eliza
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and the reason being ?
The commercial interests are unstoppable.
I just think it is not right to deceive children , maybe I'm a tad naive .
I regret hijacking this thread with my personal views & am surprised at the defensive replies.
I'm not used to being taken seriously.
20-11-2017, 10:56 PM
25
Re: Santa Claus is no longer
Originally Posted by Rehab44
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What? Are you real? 
"As part of the English Reformation St. Nicholas traditions were expressly outlawed by King Henry VIII, particularly the Boy Bishop custom.
"Father Christmas" first appears in a 15th century carol, "Hail, Father Christmas, hail to thee!" He is the personification of Christmas, rather than a real person. He shows up again in the next century as social critics lament the loss of traditional Christmas hospitality. He comes with his children, Mis-Rule, Carol, Minc'd Pie, Gamboll, Post and Paire, New-Yeares-Gift, Mumming, Wassail, Roast Beef, Plum Pudding, Offering, and Babie-Cake, at the beginning of Ben Jonson's Christmas His Masque, performed for James I in 1616.
Father Christmas' predecessors come from different groups that invaded England. The Romans (AD 43) brought Saturn who returned at Saturnalia with food and wine, revelry and equality among people. The Saxons (AD 600) anthropomorphized seasons and weather, inviting "King" or "Lord Frost" or "Snow," inside by dressing an actor in a pointed hat and cloak draped in ivy; if the personification was treated kindly, it was hoped the season would treat them likewise. Vikings (AD 800) brought Odin, who wore a hooded cloak, listened to the people and distributed goods to worthy folks; and Thor, with cloak and long white beard, who lived among the icebergs. Elements of these personages coalesced to form "Christmas," "Old Christmas" or "Father Christmas" by the the 1400s. "Father Christmas" was never a Christian religious figure, but symbolized rather the arrival of those [seasonal] secular pleasures that came from elsewhere than the Christian tradition.
Father Christmas was described originally as wearing a doublet, long stockings and a high hat. By the 18th century he wore a red or green fur-lined robe, with holly or ivy around his head, and carrying the Yule log and a bowl of punch. Dickens' Ghost of Christmas Present is probably Father Christmas. He did not bring gifts."
and where have we seen this before ?!!
"Henry the VIII may have suppressed St. Nicholas in 1542, but the Puritans tried to eliminate Christmas entirely in 1643. Shops were required to be open and churches closed, because of associations with "popery" and to stamp out the "misrule" that often led to drunkenness, excessive gambling and general licentiousness. Mince pies, mummers, holly and church services were all suppressed. "
http://www.stnicholascenter.org/pages/father-christmas/
20-11-2017, 10:59 PM
26
Re: Santa Claus is no longer
Originally Posted by Robert Jnr.
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Reason does not come into this. The commercial interests are unstoppable.
I just think it is not right to deceive children , maybe I'm a tad naive .
I regret hijacking this thread with my personal views & am surprised at the defensive replies.
I'm not used to being taken seriously.
everyone to their own opinion , and i sort of didnt take it too serious ,I know you have a Fun side and come up with some great little stories of your own .
21-11-2017, 12:30 AM
28
Re: Santa Claus is no longer
Originally Posted by AnnieS
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Lol ok it does depend what you read, but we we are so mixed up! We used to have St Nicholas here until the reformation, but Father Christmas was definitely more a "Winterfest" figure than anything to do with Christmas :"As part of the English Reformation St. Nicholas traditions were expressly outlawed by King Henry VIII, particularly the Boy Bishop custom.
"Father Christmas" first appears in a 15th century carol, "Hail, Father Christmas, hail to thee!" He is the personification of Christmas, rather than a real person. He shows up again in the next century as social critics lament the loss of traditional Christmas hospitality. He comes with his children, Mis-Rule, Carol, Minc'd Pie, Gamboll, Post and Paire, New-Yeares-Gift, Mumming, Wassail, Roast Beef, Plum Pudding, Offering, and Babie-Cake, at the beginning of Ben Jonson's Christmas His Masque, performed for James I in 1616.
Father Christmas' predecessors come from different groups that invaded England. The Romans (AD 43) brought Saturn who returned at Saturnalia with food and wine, revelry and equality among people. The Saxons (AD 600) anthropomorphized seasons and weather, inviting "King" or "Lord Frost" or "Snow," inside by dressing an actor in a pointed hat and cloak draped in ivy; if the personification was treated kindly, it was hoped the season would treat them likewise. Vikings (AD 800) brought Odin, who wore a hooded cloak, listened to the people and distributed goods to worthy folks; and Thor, with cloak and long white beard, who lived among the icebergs. Elements of these personages coalesced to form "Christmas," "Old Christmas" or "Father Christmas" by the the 1400s. "Father Christmas" was never a Christian religious figure, but symbolized rather the arrival of those [seasonal] secular pleasures that came from elsewhere than the Christian tradition.
Father Christmas was described originally as wearing a doublet, long stockings and a high hat. By the 18th century he wore a red or green fur-lined robe, with holly or ivy around his head, and carrying the Yule log and a bowl of punch. Dickens' Ghost of Christmas Present is probably Father Christmas. He did not bring gifts."
and where have we seen this before ?!!
"Henry the VIII may have suppressed St. Nicholas in 1542, but the Puritans tried to eliminate Christmas entirely in 1643. Shops were required to be open and churches closed, because of associations with "popery" and to stamp out the "misrule" that often led to drunkenness, excessive gambling and general licentiousness. Mince pies, mummers, holly and church services were all suppressed. "
http://www.stnicholascenter.org/pages/father-christmas/
21-11-2017, 12:42 AM
30
Re: Santa Claus is no longer
Originally Posted by Robert Jnr.
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I am of the opinion that both of these myths should be dumped altogether.
Oh dear Robert, he won't be bringing you any pressies if he heard what you said.
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